You can read her entry and my initial response here.
This is her reply:
"Now, allow me to retort:
the concept that There Can Be Only One and that these "cold, soulless, plastic" devices are somehow heralding the end of paper books or signaling sloth or callow attitudes is strange to me.
Then talk to the publishers.
Getting an English copy of the latest installment of their science fiction series can be impossible. If the company does not ship to Africa or Far East Asia, if the shipping would cost five times the cost of the book, such readers are SOL. With an eReader, they can continue reading. That hundred dollar investment can be the cost of a handful of paperback novels.
Actually, the same problem exists with ebooks. I get frequent emails from people who whine about how they can't get an electronic version of a book of mine in this or that country. because books are not licensed for all countries. This part's very complicated. Now, readers do easily steal ebooks, but pirating is another matter.
I also have a joint disorder. I cannot hold books like The Stand or Under the Dome for more than 20 minutes before pain or my shaking hand force
me to put them down, which means I would not read epic books if I did not have an eReader. I also have a muscle issue going on with my eyes that causes me trouble when reading for long periods of time. With my Kindle, I can adjust the font size of whatever I am reading to very larger or very small, depending on what I need. Without it, when the spasms hit, I would be unable to read much outside of what is available in large print. I guess I could try to get the epic novels on audio but that appeals to me less than reading for myself.
All of these problems can be addressed without ebooks. Audiobooks, lap desks, and, for that matter, lying on one's side on a soft surface (say a bed, as I often do), with the book open on a mattress, sofa, etc. And, I'm sorry. I'm blind in one eye, and the vision in the other is terrible. The industry should not change to
accommodate the infirmities of a few.
Technology solves those problems and the reactionary alternative is that I and people like me just need to shut up and read what we can when we can because the technology offends other people.
It's not that you need to shut up. It's that you and the gods of tech need to stop (or at least slow) this arms-open race towards dismantling the pre-existing market. Ebooks should have never been more than a niche market. Like large-print books, for example. Or audiobooks.
And please, please, please never use the phrase "dead tree books." It's dumb, and tiresome, and antiquated (I first heard it in the eighties). It implies that ebooks are somehow more friendly to the environment than are paper books, which is, at best, a delusion. At worst, a lie. Think of the petrochemicals and heavy metals required to create one Kindle. And think how this year's Kindle will clog landfills as soon as a shinier one is available, or ten years from now, when all current ereaders are obsolete (because planned obsolescence is built into this business model). The truth is that ebooks pose an ecological nightmare.
Oh, and never mind the increasing numbers of studies demonstrating that audiobooks and ebooks result lower reading comprehension."
My deleted response:
"Actually, the same problem exists with ebooks. I get frequent emails from people who whine about how they can't get an electronic version of a book of mine in this or that country. because books are not licensed for all countries.
whine... Hmm... If there is such a bulk of people besieging you with desires to eRead your books, perhaps it is a sign that this "niche" technology is not so niche after all.Plenty of people overseas are permitted to purchase properly licensed eBooks and the occasions when licensing is complicated does not invalidate the experiences of the people who legally purchase eBooks they would not have been able to obtain in paper form.
All of these problems can be addressed without ebooks. Audiobooks, lap desks, and, for that matter, lying on one's side on a soft surface (say a bed, as I often
do), with the book open on a mattress, sofa, etc.
The industry should not change to accommodate the infirmities of a few.
It's not that you need to shut up. It's that you and the gods of tech need to stop (or at least slow) this arms-open race towards dismantling the pre-existing market.
publishing industry is not handling the new technology to your satisfaction. Interestingly, though, your words are so familiar. In the 70s and 80s, few understood the potential of the personal computer and many moaned about the changes it brought because of all the bumps in the road. But now we shop differently, we spend our leisure time differently, we communicate differently. What is so wrong with reading differently too? I saw your addendum that eReaders lower comprehension rates. Alarmist studies have proven the same thing about computers but here we are, writing and communicating at a reasonably intelligent level.
The problem is that technology happens before industries know how to handle it. Boo.com was an early eCommerce disaster but these days we don't think of it when we shop online. Give eBooks time and the complications surrounding their use will fade. Markets change but reading will not die and that is what is important to readers and writers - that there remain people willing to pay for books however they are delivered. eBooks work in that model.
And as for dead tree books, the ecological problems with eReaders has not entered into this argument for me until you brought it up. Computers, phones, televisions - they all have planned obsolescence built in and occupy plenty of landfill space. eReaders are a drop in the bucket of the eco-problems on this planet but I wasn't using dead trees to discuss eco issues. It's just a phrase I employ when paper gets too repetitive."
I reproduce this not because I feel like this needs further discussion and I certainly ask that no one deride Kiernan in her journal about this, but I won't eliminate discussion here it if it happens. I just know that Kiernan often asks for comments (Comments, Kittens! and similar), I gave her a comment that was reasonably polite, her reply was patronizing at best, I responded and she deleted it with an admonition that makes my comment look like I said some pretty dreadful and utterly argumentative things. I didn't. I just replied to a woman who indicates that fans who want to read her works electronically are whiners and that the "infirm" can suck a dick as far as she's concerned, which was, given her own physical state, shocking.
Also, many of my readers here also read her journal and I didn't want anyone here to think I had said something horribly offensive to her. I didn't.
I expect stupid shit from people like
ETA: Just to make it clear, Kiernan does not owe her readers anything. That I am a fan does not play into this really other than my shock when a writing idol behaved strangely. So just because I am a fan does not mean she should permit me to write anything in comments to her journal. However, when a writer actively solicits comments in an open journal, we who read it can assume we are being treated as equals because blogging is an inherently democratic medium, and that our opinions are welcome as long as we are not patently offensive. It's bad and unappealing form to delete comments just because they do not agree with you. Of course Kiernan can run her blog however she sees fit - IROB had to develop a comment policy, as much as it pained me to do it - but it is bizarre to ask for comments and then delete what was reasonably polite back and forth. And when a blogger asks for comments and gets them and then deletes them in a manner that could indicate to some the commenter was out of line, it's a bullshit move. What is most important here is the bullshit move, though the strange ideas that the infirm should fall behind a failing business model and that people who want to read Kiernan's words in electronic format whine to her about it are definitely interesting.
ETA2: It would appear that Kiernan has deleted my first comment as well, the comment she deemed polite enough to respond to. Should anyone want to see it, let me know and I'll post it.
October 13 2011, 22:20:25 UTC 7 months ago
For me, I want ereaders and paper books to exist at the same time. I think making it an either/or set up is no good. Bring them all! Every way we can read for everyone. How to fix the mess of rights and editions and prices and publishing, I am not completely sure. But I don't think the issue needs to be over whether I read on screen or on paper.
I think I discovered Kiernan through you, when I think about it.
I've noticed something that I don't even know what to call in Kiernan's journal lately. A sort of simmering hostility perhaps is the simplest way I can think to describe it. It rests awkwardly with her requests for interaction in her journal. Like she's looking for something and isn't getting it and is pissed at all of us for not coming through. I don't know if I am expressing this well at all. But it has grown more and more present over the past couple months for whatever reason.
October 13 2011, 22:40:31 UTC 7 months ago
Despite this kerfuffle, I am glad you read her works. She is very much sui generis in terms of how she handles post and trans-humanism. No one else comes close to replicating her calm body horror.
I too have sensed the tension she has been exhibiting in her journal, the simmering hostility, as you put it. Being chronically unable to sleep with my own health shit makes me very sympathetic to her. I understand it to an extent. But when someone's simmering hostility lands on my comment in such a heavy-handed way, I can't help but react.
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October 13 2011, 22:32:10 UTC 7 months ago
I want the method of delivery to be comfortable to hold and to read. Other than that, I care not for the packaging, except in special circumstances.
(Absolute Sandman looks awesome, for instance, but I don't need that for most books.)
October 13 2011, 22:45:48 UTC 7 months ago
But there are some books for which the special circumstances mean there is no alternative but paper. Henry got me a copy of the Codex Seraphinianus for my birthday. That is definitely a book that simply cannot be read on an eReader. Most arty books are the same way.
But mass market paper backs and best sellers? I don't lose much of the experience electronically, though perversely I still prefer paper.
October 13 2011, 22:34:38 UTC 7 months ago
October 13 2011, 22:49:39 UTC 7 months ago
I will always prefer paper books, I think, but there is something reassuring knowing that books outside of my capacity to read them in paper format are still available to me electronically.
October 13 2011, 23:05:53 UTC 7 months ago
October 13 2011, 23:17:02 UTC 7 months ago
Anonymous
October 13 2011, 23:08:52 UTC 7 months ago
Mister Gore/Mister OddBooks here
After I read your initial comment the first thing I though of was my father, awdrey-gore's father-in-law. Since I was a small boy, he has loved to read pocket paperback Westerns. He probably has several thousand of them, going back decades. Recently he discovered that, even with powerful reading glasses, he increasingly couldn't read his beloved books.So what did he do? He bought a Barnes & Noble Nook, which allows him to increase the font size so that he can comfortably read. In one fell swoop my father was able to return to a pastime that had given him a great deal of joy, and he is busy re-purchasing all of his Louis L'Amour and Zane Grey books as epubs.
Ebooks and ebook readers have profoundly improved my father's life, and thus mine, so I was more than a little disappointed to read that "The industry should not change to accommodate the infirmities of a few." What a crock of shit.
October 13 2011, 23:27:56 UTC 7 months ago
Re: Mister Gore/Mister OddBooks here
I didn't know that about your dad. We need to get him some B&N gift certificates. :)Your father is a prince among men. It's likely good I didn't know this when I initially responded.
It borders on pig-ignorance not to see that eReaders, in addition to serving people like your father and me well, can also be enormous cash cows. It's not Kiernan's fault that the publishing industry isn't handling this new technology to their benefit, but it's another thing entirely to state that industry should not change in order to benefit the infirm. That in and of itself is horrible but it's damn short-sighted. The "infirm" have money and like your dad, we're willing to repurchase the books we read years ago that we can no longer read. It's actually a way to create entirely new revenue streams for writers when people buy electronic versions of the books they can no longer read.
There was so much wrong with her response but even more wrong when I consider your dad and his Westerns.
October 13 2011, 23:38:31 UTC 7 months ago
...Also, I have a copy of "Silk" but have never read it. Worthwhile?
October 14 2011, 00:02:55 UTC 7 months ago Edited: October 14 2011, 00:05:23 UTC
Edit: Ha ha, deluded. Let's try "deluged," which may be a stretch but makes more sense than the other.
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October 13 2011, 23:39:38 UTC 7 months ago
While I often enjoy reading her LJ I find it pretty odd that she begs for comments but also sets up very strict parameters in which comments are acceptable. The "do not sympathize with me, ever!" thing she often posts about seems histrionic. I can get that when one struggles with a chronic ailment that the last thing one wants is ADVICE b/c yeah, we've heard it, tried it, got the t-shirt... but to sort of spurn all efforts of commiseration or empathy seems odd to me.
All that said, I love my Kindle. I still buy paper books, but the Kindle means it is less likely that I will die under a fallen pile of books like some creepy old recluse.
October 14 2011, 00:17:00 UTC 7 months ago
It also pings me as odd that a sci-fi writer would be so angry at technology progression. I sympathize with the idea that eBooks create all sorts of financial issues but to demean an entire technology on the basis that companies are short sighted is dumb.
I get the no sympathy as I jokingly threaten to ban anyone who ever tells me how to go to sleep myself, but it is joking. I'd never do it - I just want people to know I am way past people telling me about their herbal supplements. But there is a sort of hollow element to reading her journal as of late, wherein we need to be witnesses to her words and she craves interaction but that interaction must happen within very specific parameters. But as I said, her journal, her rules - I just don't like that the bait and switch happened in such a way as to try to make me look like an asshole.
I will die under a fallen pile of books like some creepy old recluse.
Don't forget the passel of cats to eat your corpse!
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October 14 2011, 00:04:38 UTC 7 months ago
As a would-be writer, I don't care how people read my words. I just care that they read them.
October 14 2011, 00:11:44 UTC 7 months ago
October 14 2011, 00:53:40 UTC 7 months ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_
Design once, for everyone. "able" people have easier access, others have easier access, and when (not if) the able become not-able they'll have the same access they had before. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept for her.
October 14 2011, 01:00:34 UTC 7 months ago
I just take a wee bit of umbrage at the idea that anyone would put human beings behind a failing business model because... because... well, business models should not change, dammit!
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October 14 2011, 12:31:04 UTC 7 months ago
Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world...
all I hope is that it doesn't reach a point where you feel compelled to shoot every Kiernan book you own[nudge nudge ;) ;) ] .This ebook reader thing is cool esp when you need to carry around tons of legal documentation or research ..but what I don't get is how the kindle edition costs as much as the actual paperback and that the format is proprietary and you don't really own your book..but hey..just buy real books, they last longer
btw what's your take on something like this
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/652
on the other hand anything that will get people reading can't be that bad(and 70% of the books on that list can be borrowed from libraries )..writers could set up an anonymous donate button that people could use if they liked the book and need to wash the guilt :D
btw paperbacks ..I have a lot of them with detached spines(or however you call it..where the name and author is written ) and sometimes the covers have come loose.how do you fix that?paperbacks are so fragile
I'm going to go by Impecunious Ted from now on
October 14 2011, 17:57:06 UTC 7 months ago
Re: Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world...
I know. You sent me one of her books.All technology has an element of pirating involved and those who buy books 99% of the time will never pirate a book they can purchase. So I think you are correct, that piracy occurs among people who never had any intention of purchasing the book or cannot legally purchase it.
I'm not going to shoot her books but her contempt for her readers who consume the books on eReaders will give me pause before spending money for her books in the future. It sucks when someone whose work you enjoyed and respected shows their ass in such a disappointing manner.
I am currently trying to repair some hard backs where the covers along the spine have separated and the pages are loose and cannot be reattached via the original stitching poles. Once I manage that, I will try to do a paperback and see what I can do. If I pull it off, I'll share or record it or something. I have a couple of paperbacks that I cannot replace cheaply that need some work so I need to figure it out.
No. No, you are Ted the Romanian and there can be no more discussion on the matter.
October 14 2011, 14:21:51 UTC 7 months ago
I also think there may be a generational thing involved here. I'm about the same age as Kiernan, and about the same age as other authors I've seen moaning about eBooks. I admit I'm a bit old school, I like my "real" books. I'll never stop reading them, and frankly I don't see them going away any time. But I'm not adverse to the technology, either. I have a friend who was in a serious accident last December. He was badly injured, including a severe break in his left arm (he's got a titanium plate in that arm). He was in the hospital for about 2 months, and we bought him a Kindle. He also loves his "real" books, but he did say that having the Kindle allowed him to actually read while he was in the hospital. I felt the comments about finding other ways to adjust that don't need eReaders to be condescending - after all, an audio book is not a booksmith crafted book, either. It's technology.
To be honest, my biggest issue with the Kindle in particular is that when you buy eBooks through Amazon, you're only buying a licensing agreement to the book, and Amazon can remove it from your library at any time (which they've done in the past when they had issues with publishers). That's not an issue of the Kindle itself, it's an issue of the evolving nature of publishing, and in time, those kinks will work themselves out. Because publishers know eBooks aren't going away, the demand will only grow, and publishers are in it to make money.
Meanwhile, I don't have any plans any time soon to buy an eBook, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate their convenience, and that if someone were to give me one, I would turn my nose up at it.
October 14 2011, 18:17:23 UTC 7 months ago
All tech has these issues and it has to be uncomfortable to be one of the people whose bottom line is affected as we make the transition into understanding that an electronic book is the same as a paper book, that it is worth similar amounts of money, that books should not been seen as a pirated commodity. That didn't come up in Kiernan's rant. It was about how the art in her books was unable to be enjoyed via eBooks, that the plastic, nasty devices were somehow a symbol of a lack of soul.
Her words: I hope that as the mass-media & publishing industries, along with various associated symbiotes and parasites and whores, continue to play circle jerk with ebooks and reader thingies and whatnot, and pat themselves on the back for embracing the cold, soulless, plastic Brave New (& Ever So Much More Practical) World of the Insubstantial, that it makes way for a "booksmithing" renaissance. The disease could be the cure. I'll suffer Kindles and Nooks and Schnooks and whatever, as long as real books (which are more than pixel words on a screen, in sixteen shades of grey) survive and thrive, even if only in a marginalized niche.
Symbiotes, parasites and whores. eReaders are a disease. The insult to her readers and those who use those eReaders was so offensive that I cannot imagine why any writer would want to alienate her readers in such a manner. Her subsequent attempt to tell me (ME OF ALL FUCKING PEOPLE) how to read a book as if she has any of the same ailments reeked of condescension. Then I had to deal with the fact that despite having read her for years that I somehow missed that one is not permitted to have any sort of polite discussion with her, even when she goads her readers with patronizing replies. This post was less about the utility of eReaders than it was about the utter fail of character Kiernan displayed in this whole fucking discourse.
Ah, but your friend with his aching hands does not deserve an eReader because the market should not change to accommodate the infirm and he should employ a lap desk, a pillow or perhaps read on his side, according to Kiernan.
I get the old coot part of this to a degree. But as y'all's slightly younger age peer, we've all seen a lot of technological changes in our lives. Typewriters were still common when I was in college. Kiernan doesn't write on a typewriter, she delivers an eJournal to her paying fans and her arbitrary decision as to which technology is valid is baffling.
The most interesting part of eBooks is that anyone can do it now. It is an inherently democratic process, which means that a lot of crap is out there available for purchase. But it also means that an excellent writer with a loyal fan base can make a good living selling their own eBooks. A very good living. Eliminating the outliers, like that Amanda girl who is a millionaire now, I know people who make a high five figure income selling their eBooks, far more money than they would make had they sold their books to a traditional publisher. Far from being a death knell to books and writers, the technology, if one is not tied to tradition, can be a Very Good Thing for all involved.
October 15 2011, 03:34:44 UTC 7 months ago
But it’s sad as well. When I’m a fan of something/someone, I try to support it/them as much as I possibly can. For CRK, this meant pre-ordering expensive limited editions from SubPress, buying the OOP and rarer books on Ebay (from her personally, when I could), recommending her to everyone I know, and subscribing to Sirenia Digest. I’m so disillusioned with how CRK overreacted to your comments that I doubt I will bother doing any of that ever again. I wound up canceling my subscription to Sirenia Digest last night because I was that upset when I first read your entry.
I have enjoyed reading everyone’s comments about paper books and ebooks existing together in a way that doesn’t have to exclude the other. Ebooks will never replace the real thing for me. But, as much as I would like to keep buying paper books until they manage to crowd me out of the house, it is no longer practical to do so. My Kindle is handy for those books that I wouldn’t necessarily buy a physical copy of but would still like to read. In fact, IROB indirectly led me to ask my husband to buy a Kindle for my birthday a couple of months ago. I was sick of reading reviews for books that sounded interesting but were completely different from what I usually read. Owning a Kindle has made it so much easier for me to read more Bizarro books, that’s for damn sure.
Hmm. This comment is a lot longer and more melodramatic than I'd planned. But I'll stand by it. ;-)
October 15 2011, 03:45:50 UTC 7 months ago
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October 16 2011, 03:17:15 UTC 7 months ago
I also work in the hospitals. I sit in rooms with highly contagious patients overnight.
I have an e-reader BECAUSE I can disinfect that sucker and do not have to throw my books away every shift.
Go ahead Mrs. "Paper-is-perfect". Completely disinfect your book, and tell me what shape it is in afterwards. (Paperbooks do not react well to all to alcohol based disinfectants! )
October 18 2011, 20:31:17 UTC 7 months ago
The whole thing was illogical and so ageist and ablist I have no respect left for the woman.
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Anonymous
November 12 2011, 17:50:35 UTC 6 months ago
W.P.
November 12 2011, 18:52:18 UTC 6 months ago
Let's get pedantic with it, Michael. I quote: "You've been tiresome this week and I think you are unhinged but I won't discuss any of this sorry episode any longer."
And I haven't discussed the sorry episode. I've linked to it and mentioned your name. Stop existing and I promise I will stop mentioning you exist.
Last and only comment you are permitted to get through undeleted until 2012. Take this grievous upset to your journal, either one (presuming you only have the two) and bitch about it there.
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